Talk:Cannabis Culture

New Paltz is an organism. The wiki is the brain.

Contents 1 Oppressive vs. disciplinary 2 General Consensus Still Equals POV 3 Shango 4 Precautions? 5 Touch up two paragraphs 6 Blunt Rolling 101 7 Price woes 8 Merge With Psychedelic 9 Mids?

[edit] Oppressive vs. disciplinary

Christian Amez just made an edit changing this sentence: "One exception is the HAB Administration, which controls University Police, and has a very oppressive approach to the cannabis culture. See: Expulsion Policy" by replacing the word "oppressive" with the word "disciplinary."

This edit is made under the auspices of being a POV edit, but it was not discussed on the talk page.

I disagree with this edit. I think that the word "Disciplinary" in inaccurate and also very awkward in that sentence.

Look at it this way: Students who participate in this culture live in constant fear that armed men will break down their doors. They feel a need to hide their identities and their invovlement in this culture from other people.

If any other culture were treated this way, we would not hesitate to call it oppressive. In fact, I can't think of another culture in New Paltz whose defining characteristic is an illegal act. Perhaps the graffiti culture...

In any case, the fact that some drugs are illegal - that is, that the state will send force to disrupt their use - is, by definition, oppressive to the people who use those drugs.

The reason I don't think the phrase fits for parts of New Paltz other than the campus is that the penalties for possession off campus are negligible ($25 fine, if that) as compared to expulsion from school.

I am inclined to revert, but I would definitely like to hear what Christian has to say first. Justin Holmes (Senate Chair) 10:07, 13 April 2006 (CDT)

I took the liberty of changing this word to "punitive." My hope is that this is both more accurate and still NPOV. Any objections?

[edit] General Consensus Still Equals POV

Even if there is a general consensus that the law enforcement on drug use is oppressive on campus, it is still the point-of-view of those who reached that consensus - I don't see how you can deny that. It could feel that way to everyone whose had first hand experience or has clear knowledge of that enforcement, but it's still their opinion. To some police officers it's probably seen as great law enforcement (and if they're marijuana-prohibitionists, seen as a great duty). I believe "disciplinary" is the most unbiased word that can be used to describe what goes on, while "oppressive" is clearly the bias of those who are against it.

There can be a majority of people who call countries with less rights than ours, "oppressive", but that's still our point of view.

P.S. I originally made the POV change when a friend of mine on campus (whom I introduced the Wiki to), complained that the Wiki was being run by NORML and it's supporters, and reeked of their POVs. I asked for him to point out one clear NORML POV 'cause I was defending you as well as the Wiki, and he pointed that one out in particular.

ChristiansCatharsis 12:35, 14 April 2006 (CDT)

I don't disagree, but I do come to a different conclusion.

Every adjective in the world has some point of view to it - there is no such thing as a non-point of view descriptor.

It's hard for me to imagine that a reasonable person would refuse to call the attitude and actions of the HAB against drug users oppressive. Disciplinary is an accurate word as well, but it does not describe fully describe the atmosphere.

You say that consensus and public opinion doesn't matter, and yet you box this reference in as "NORML POV." Seriously, this is not just the POV of NORML, or even of all drug users - it's a very reasonable, very accurate description.

I'm willing to compromise - we need a better word than "disciplianary," and than perhaps mix it with "many students find it oppressive." Any ideas?

Oh, hey - I'm someone who believes that not only are the charges made against drug users excessive, but shouldn't exist in the first place. Again, I have no problem with across-the-board legalization and privatization of marijuana (on either the same or less restrictive level of cigarettes and alcohol). But I'm not out to change the minds of people who are aware of the things we are, and just feel socially uncomfortable with legalization (like the other half of the CRs). That's why I'll still be sure their feelings are known, and not be sort of bullied out of the drug-welcoming community of New Paltz.

I did get picky with this page in particular, and believe me I never would have if I didn't choose to demonstrate to the new Wikier that if for any reason someone finds something to be a POV on a NPOV page, that it could be changed and the reason for changing it could be noted. I just felt bad doing it before discussing it, because again I was sort of on the spot to defend you and the Wiki.

Haha, I always come off as against legalization in these sort of discussions, but if anywhere I'm glad I clarified it here. Nevertheless, I find "oppressive" to be too biased a word by itself, so "many/majority (of) students" or just "the drug culture" find it oppressive, would be prime. Take care. Later.

[edit] Shango

Someone edited the page today and removed both instances of Shango Hall. It has been my experience that Shango, like all the other Residence Halls, has had a constant source of marijuana at all times. Without going into sensitive details, it seems clear to me that the current table is accurate with regard to Shango.

However, I am dismayed by the fact that nobody else has really made an effort to reflect their experience of the marijuana market on campus. I would be interested to engage this editor or anyone else in a discussion of how accurate my assessment is. I hope that people will add to the table, or come to the talk page to discuss significant subtractions if they feel they are in order. Justin Holmes (Senate Chair) 00:24, 3 April 2006 (CDT)

Justin,

I don't think people want that information public. It's hard enough to sell in the dorms, and with stuff like this posted on WikiPaltz, it makes it even more risky. I know you're all for having things public, but sometimes we need to be pragmatic, and recognize that smoking cannabis is illegal and people can face serious consequences if they're caught with it. So why don't we just take down all the dorms? It'll make life a lot easier.

Nicole Javaly 00:28, 3 April 2006 (CDT)

I don't understand this logic. Every single hall has marijuana for sale - in fact I believe every hall has at least three outlets - some have seven or eight. Almost every hall is mentioned in the table, and really if we were keeping up on things, more should be added.

Taking down all the hall names will not make life easier - not for consumers or retailers. We just need to be smart about providing enough information that people can find one another, but not so much that they get busted. Obviously the drug war is a travesty in many ones - one of which is that it makes us find a line between security and free speech. Still, that line is most responsibly drawn somewhere in the middle, not at one extreme as you have suggested. Justin Holmes (Senate Chair) 03:20, 3 April 2006 (CDT)

[edit] Precautions?

While I definitely agree that the "precautions" section belongs on WikiPaltz, it strikes me that it is not exactly cannabis culture but rather cannabis safety or something else. Any suggestions on whether and where to move it? 69.86.31.103 21:46, 6 March 2006 (CST)

The following edit was on the article page, but I have moved it here because it is inherently discussion rather than talk. To the editor who created it: It has great content for the article page, but it needs to be NPOV and must not be in the 1st person.Justin Holmes (Senate Chair) 01:04, 26 October 2005 (CDT)

---

Since the start of the 2005 - 2006 School Year, police harassment has exploded accross campus. Students have been arrested en masse in the area of the bridge accross the Gunk out near Esopus. A sizeable number of students (a large portion of which are porportedly freshmen) have been arrested for posession and are now under probation or worse penalties. As an avid cannabis consumer, I would hate to see my peers caught and abused by the local gestapo.

On that note I offer this advice, smoke only where you can keep an eye on the nearby roads and bike-friendly trails, remember that police arent always in uniform, and will often circle you if they notice your not an adult. They have been known to follow people accross campus on bikes, and randomly open unlocked off campus home doors. So be careful when returning after a smoke, as they will not hesitate to enter an unlocked door, on or off campus. If you notice some fellow smokers about to get busted, or you notice someone NARCing, report the incident to this wiki. Please keep all NARC reports serious and factual as libel will not be tolerated.

[edit] Touch up two paragraphs

Literally dozens of SUNY New Paltz students are smoking pot right now, in their dorms, on the road, driving by the police station, or outside the door of academic, residential, or administrative buildings. Though most students would likely not report on a fellow student, many would, and people are often caught in all these locations and more. - - As always, the safest place to smoke, and likely the most common is at home, but any resident students of New Paltz take many extra risks by smoking in their dorms.

A few problems:

• Although I have no doubt it's true, there's no way to prove or source that "dozens" are smoking pot right now, and I'm not sure how that fits into the rest of the article anyway.
  • the source would be the testimonials, which i guess is inherently talk, but im going to change "are" to "could be" and then it adresses the very heart of the article being "common smoking spots" as if they are common smoking spots for people i know, then they qualify, if they are common smoking spots for anyone (i am a one thus making it at least someone)Verybakedpotatoe 17:57, 3 November 2005 (CST)
• Do we know that people have been busted "outside the door of academic, residential, or administrative buildings"?
  • Yes. of course we do. Students are, and have been busted outside the doors of their dorms, in the tunnel underneath, and areas around the administrative buildings, and all around the academic buildings, whether it be on the road between humanitees and the CSB (whis is patrolled by police cars) or it be the road around the parker quad, boutian quad, and any other place on campus where police patrol. So to say that we dont know that, i cant figure that out. Students are busted there, therefore they are smoking spots. maybe the word common is the largest problem, given that on this topic noone is nececarily qualified to draw campus wide conclusions, but i would maintain that if it is common enough for several people to know, then its common enough to be called commonVerybakedpotatoe 17:57, 3 November 2005 (CST)
• The safest place to smoke is at least in dispute. For students who live on campus, their home is a dorm, and thus inherently unsafe. Is there a way to universalize this statement? If not, how could we reflect the various views on the topic? Justin Holmes (Senate Chair) 18:07, 2 November 2005 (CST)
  • I would say that home is the safest place to smoke because there there are fewer risks of police encounters, traffic accidents, or other mishaps. as for addressing dorms, i think i covered that with the word "but", im going to remove the phrase "as always" and replace it with "often reported" as that is undeniably true. even police who dont nececarily agree with marijuana use, say to smoke it at home for safety reasons. I dont want to sound like i believe anything an officer says simply becasue he is an officer, but i will also not discount it by the same logic. Im going to edit my comments, and repost them to the article section, i feel it is absolutly critical to address the fact that all the common smoking spots are very risky, and many of the common smoking spots are also the common busting spots. That is a fact. period. Even from a purely statistical standpoint you cant deny that.Verybakedpotatoe 17:57, 3 November 2005 (CST)

[edit] Blunt Rolling 101

Yo, that video is tha SHIT! The music in the background is clutch, the whole thing makes me want to go smoke a blunt right now! Dan4President 14:38, 5 April 2006 (CDT)

[edit] Price woes

You college kids get ripped off so bad. I havent payed that much for weed since 6th grade. -Lakodar

I agree, the prices represented in this table are a bit high, and i, for one, would never pay those prices in New York. Maybe back home, but thats the middle of nowhere. If you dont know where to get the $35 eighths, or even $40 at most, then your gettign screwed. By-the-by Hash prices are steep but man is it worth it.(shhh, towel the door) Verybakedpotatoe 15:12, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

Jake, you are probably right about the market here. Please fix the chart according to your perception and we'll work out any differences. Justin Holmes (Senate Chair) 16:24, 11 April 2006 (CDT)

[edit] Merge With Psychedelic

While there are many distinguishing characteristics that make Cannabis Sativa a substance unlike any other known psychotropic, and certainly it does not function in the same way as other psychedelics, would this article be better suited if it were merged with the article on Psychedelic culture?--[Timh]

I think the main reason for having two different pages is that these represent very very different cultures in New Paltz. Perhaps we should make a third page, Drug Culture, which encompasses elements of both and provides links? President Justin Holmes 11:48, 25 May 2006 (CDT)

[edit] Mids?

I left mids on the chart and added that there might be some in Capen, as I have heard this. However, I have not seen this herb on campus for a long time. Is it still around or should it be removed from the table?